Truth vs Proof: Both Christians and Scientists Have Issues

I watched Moyers and Company with Bill Moyers yesterday. I didn't catch his name, but there was a young man on who was against school vouchers, as am I, but for different reasons. And in the second half, Bill had a woman on expousing the virtues of Atheism or just maybe why she is an Atheist. I will deal with just the young man essentially now, addressing Atheism only a little.

The young man spoke about Science vs. Religion and specifically Creationism and/or Intelligent Design vs. Darwinism/Evolution and other scientific theories. He addressed it because he noticed that "voucher" school curriculums concerning this subject varied vastly from that of public schools, but the voucher money and therefore the schools were still publically funded, being monies taken from the general public education funds. Yet, the voucher schools didn't have the same requirements and standards as the public schools. His concern was first that he disagreed with and disbelieves all religious held theories. But also his concern was that the scientific literacy and readiness of some American children was being thwarted due to a lack of educating and giving knowledge needed for the scientific and technological advancement of this country, filling of certain jobs and in competing with other nations, like China and Russia. His concern was the real threat of a disadvantage by America children if they aren't taught "real" science.

Concerning education, I agree with the young man and I agree concerning voucher schools. I do not like their very existence, but if they are going to exist, they should be held to the same standards as all other schools. I believe all children must be taught what is commonly held as truth universally in order to compete. However, there is also nothing wrong with in addition to learning all the scientific theories and how they we're derived that especially in religious schools, these students can also be taught about God, even if as another theory.  And in public schools, since none are qualified to teach religion, and even if qualified that is not there function, they should stick only with science, but they should not endoctrinize one way or the other either and disturb individual families freedom of religion.

This is the government, political substance of my argument. The young man as stated argued both a government or political reasoning  as to why there should be an across the board standard in schools, but also he disputed religion and held the scientific theories as fact, and religion as fairytale. And that is where me and the young man part. Let me make a Science verses Religion argument in substance of my own and tackle that part of the debate.  I will get right into it.  I want to be as brief as I possibly can concerning this topic, but there is so much.

If someone from 100 or even 50 years ago, suddenly appeared today, they would be amazed and in awe of what we can do and how quickly. From the microwave, to cell phones, to 3D printers, one from another time would see us as almost god like.

Science can neither prove or disprove factually there is a God. And as a Christian, I will cede that religion can not prove the existence of God, a god, many gods or anything spiritual, either. But we must all admit that there are things that are contained in the bible that was once suspect and thought of as unbelievable, and now is believable being scientifically proven through traditional science, medicine/health research, and especially archeology.

Things once thought as only fairytales and preposterous like the ark and a world flood, there being one land mass and then it breaking into pieces forming our current global make up and the continents, the existence of men like David, Solomon and Jesus whether you believe the amazing stories concerning them or not, all crucifixtions period and specifically the cross of a man named Jesus even if you don't believe He is God and risen, and even the very cloth that wrapped His face has been found and tested and traced back to the right period and someone called Jesus. There is laughter being medicine and at least aiding in healing, several diets have been derived from the Leviticus food commandments given by God, and there are many philosophical ways of life especially found in Ecclessiastics, Proverbs, Psalms and the Gospels that are widely accepted as true and received as worth living by, even by those that do not accept that they are spiritual or from God; especially concepts of Love, giving and the Golden Rule.  And the physicological and emotional positive values of these are widely accepted by celebrated and respected scientists, doctors, psychologists, and other scientific professions.

Yes. There are still many things that are strange and unbelievable to scientists and those that demand facts like the Virgin Birth, the resurrection of Christ and of Lazarus and other resurrections, and instant healing with even limbs growing back. But putting aside these and the philosophical stuff, and concentrating only on the physical and physiological things now proven, if there were things once thought as not true because of a lack of proof, and now can be proven, how do we know that someday other biblical occurences might not be proved? And most especially now with the grand technological advances in both procedures and instruments. With all the fodder that has been through out time, you'd think religion and science would grow further apart as science advanced, but it has been quite the opposite. I believe this generation is ready to have honest, honorable, open conversations, to search out truth only and accept that truth.  I say honorable because both sides have been known to try to tip the scales in their favor through out history. But this era will admit when there is inconclusive evidence to state as fact one way or another scientifcally. I stress scientifically as in the teaching of it in schools, but as for me personally, my faith is fact!

It seems the most higly debated of all  has been how this world came to exist. I believe Creationism as found in the bible and other religions is even more disputed and highly contested than the Christian's belief in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ itself.

I started off with two thoughts: 1) No one can prove or disprove scientifically either the existence or the non existence of God and 2) if one from any era before appeared today, they would think to be on another plant having seen and experience what they would think to be the impossible. If you put these two ideas together, I submit to all that it is possible that both science and religion can be right concerning this matter and/or we must all admit that on some level, using all accepted scientific principles, that all are theoretical and can't be actually proven.

I am not versed enough to say whether or not this planet and world is thousands of years or millions of years old. But I do believe the bible, AND I also trust neutral scientists that have no agenda to prove or disprove one way or the other, and are only presenting proof derived through accepted scientific means and methods. Now , "accepted scientific means and methods" may be the very issue and point of stress. How and who decides which processes are acceptable? And since none of us were present in the beginning, there has to be grains of faith even scientists must accept and use as starting points before they actually conduct experiments to conclude fact. Therefore, the "facts" themselves will always be suspect and considered theory. Some scientists stubbornly refuse to admit that, all the while forcing the faithful to accept all that they say. Scientists that refuse to admit this, can taint things and sometimes may be colored by a pre-supposed disposition, which can affect their conclusions. Which can sometimes color findings, as all human beings instinctively want to be right and proven so. (At least I admit that I want and love to be right and proven as such, and have the guts to say as such. I also am quick to admit when I'm wrong or at least I will when or if that ever happens :)

Any how. Let's say we take one of the scientific theories on how the world was created. Let's take Big Bang. Also, one of my favorite shows. If there was a Big Bang, can any scientist prove that God or a God didn't cause it and then arrange all the particles in a certain order in a specific time frame? If a Being is great enough to do it at all, then even if science said it had to have or proposed it would take millions of years to do it, couldn't a Supernatural Being do what would take millions of years in much less time, even in a day? The problem that scientists refuse to admit is that they can't prove that it took millions of years, only that it could've and perhaps should've taken millions of years. They were not there. All original premises takes a type of faith, and believing of facts not in evidence or ever could be, or a "Just take our word for it, it's a commonly accepted truth among us scientists" even just as Christians have commonly accepted, unproven truths, too. We just out and out call it what it is, common faith.

In let's say 1908, if some one wanted to cook a thick pot roast, it would take hours. Today, we have products like convection ovens, microwaves, and "Set it and Forget it" that would take half the time or less to cook the exact same-sized pot roast than in would in 1908. If a scientist could compare the two meats, outside of things like taste and seasoning and perhaps better cooking skills, would they be able to differentiate the two? Would they know the difference in the two meats concerning the specified focus that they were both once raw and now are both cooked only. Particle for particle, a scientist would only conclude that both were cooked. And the one in 1908 would assume as fact the approximate time it took to do so. A scientist in 1908 would make the same assumption if there was a way for he/she to compare both, concerning the roast cooked today. So a cooked roast was "created" in two different eras, using two different instruments, one much faster than the other and the guy in 1908 would swear it impossible to have the same exact roast cooked in so little time. The important thing is, that unless we build a time machine, he will never naturally know anything differently.

So in reverse as concering time, if scientists say Creation had to take a certain amount of time, could God have done the exact same thing and created our world in much less time if He is all powerful and Supernatural? Scientists can't disprove because like the guy in 1908, they will never be there and no one apparently took notes except God, whom can't be proved. And for all that speak of other "myths" that can't be proven or disproven and therefore what I speak is discounted, I submit to you, most of them can be disproven; Santa, Easter Bunny, etc. I believe God, all supernatural forces, and aliens are still on the table. And we are getting closer to the ability to prove or disapprove aliens, now.

Let me tackle Evolution a little. Darwin was not an Atheist. In fact, many of the scientists that searched for truth and proof, were not Atheists. And not all scientists are non-believers today, either. I think Darwins theory of Evolution concerning the relation between all creatures is extremely close and accurate to the bible. I believe he just didn't go far enough in his meditation and search. I do not believe that human beings evolved from any other species, ape or any other. Nor do I believe any being came from one simple being like the amoeba, or any one substance but I believe all creation are all of one substance. The common factor and why there is so much evidence that seems to point to Evolution much more than any other theory, can be found in God's way of building things upon things and in Genesis one. Now I know I lost some agnostics and atheists, but like I stated above, much of this takes some kind of faith in a starting point at least, even for science.

In Genesis one, it says God made the creatures of the sea, then the beasts of the land, and then Mankind. Rather than one evolving into another, it is possible God created one, took certain attributes of that one and created another, then took things from that one and created another and so on until all creatures were made leading up to Mankind. Whereas man would include all of who God is, while the animals only had some elements of God but that element and even intelligence increasing  creature by creature.And it is possible that the primate family was right before man, which is why they are so much more closely related and relative to man as if we actually came from them, rather than was created just after them.

So to conclude, I will state again. Darwinism/Evolution, Big Bang, Intelligent Design and Genesis One are all  theories. Let public schools teach scientific theory and let parents rightly divide or disseminate the information given to their children. Government should not be in the business of teaching religion. They will screw it! That is not their function. However, no child should be endoctrinized by public schools or teachers one way or the other as to what is truth. Regardless of how widely accepted by scientists any Creation theory may be, it is still theory for all the reasons I stated above. By scientists own commonly held standards of proof, none of it can be proven. So just like with philosophy, or when teaching comparative religions for knowledge sake only, let all scientific Creation theories be taught as just that, theory, and let parents train their own children. I am not concluding or stating that all science is unproven, just these things mentioned. I'm a devout Christian, but I am also pro science and delight in facts and truth, even the truth that there are no facts concerning certain things, yet.

To my Christian parents, if you are not raising or training your children to be able to hear any and every thought, teaching, or doctrine that may be contrary to God and His Word without them falling out of faith and developing a disciplined heart and mind, that's on you. You're issue is not with government and school teachers. Stop expecting others to take responsibility for the responsibility God gave to you; your children. Take them to Church and Sunday School and talk to them daily without fail, even as your Heavenly Father desires to talk to you.

And to my Conservatives please stop with the voucher stuff. It makes Christians look weak and like total punks and it's why some Christians can't live, fully function and thrive in this world WITH the worldly! It also looks bad politically, because these vouchers do rob the general public of tax money earmarked for the public education for all. When the pot is split everyone loses, and the children who may not have responsible parents are even worse off and will grow up for our children to then have to deal with a much bigger adult problem.

But with all that said, if any still wants to send their child to private or home school, then let them do it. But do it on your own dime. But then, no one, not even I,want to hear anything from you about the state of public education. You want out? Go quietly! Only those that stay, have the right to fight the good fight, even verbally.

Let's always see the big picture and the details. And I say to all; saint and scientists, the truth will set us all free even from the strife of the on going debate. So, let us all have a ready mind and heart to search out and for and receive truth and Proof. For I trust that one way or another Truth shall be proved.

Graced, Sent and Fair,

Yulanda K.
An awesome PublicServant now! #NewBreed

PS. The Atheist on Moyers said she didn't believe there is a God because of all the bad, sickness, and evil in the world. My question to her is, unless she also believes that there has been and is only evil and no good, how come the good doesn't cause her to believe that there is a God? And if not God, how does she account for good? And whatever that answer is, why can it not be God that caused or is responsible for whatever she feels is responsible for the good, whether it be people, or happenstance or luck? I would love to hear her answers.
Peace In!

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